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Thread: Raptor 700 cam thread

  1. #1
    Master Modder D7Racing's Avatar
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    Raptor 700 cam thread

    The topic of cams and witch one to run has been one of the best kept secrets in the Raptor world. Itís not a matter of what cam to run most of the time but whoís.
    Were not only extremely limited by grinders of cams but also few grinds to pick from.

    What Iíd like to do is help you understand cam terminology , basic science behind it. To help you make a more educated cam decision.

    A little back ground on me. I know most of you know me a turbo builder. What most donít know is my back ground. I come from a family of hot rodders , drag racers , & builders. My original goal was to be a cam designer. I studied under the head cam grinder/designer at Erson cam back in the late 80ís. As most life took me another direction. But I never stopped being a gear head. I have been very fortunate to have worked on , built , and driven many different machines. , From 2 stroke and 4 stoke quads and motorcycles to drag racing , Baja and off road buggies, to land speed cars.
    One key thing I have learned is there is no one person that knows it all.

    First thing to know isÖYou ask 10 different people on the net what cam to run 5 will tell you the cam they run is the best the other 5 will tell you what cam they plan to run based on the first 5.

    There is no single best cam. The cam is the heart of your build and the build should be built around the cam you choose. Iím not going to tell you what cam to choose that is up to you to decide.

    Step 1 understanding a cam card. Thus understanding the cam itself.

    Example of a Web 4 cam card.
    Valve lift ..........................................Intake.. ..................Exhaust
    .................................................. ........ .500".........................460"
    Valve lash..........................................005" ...........................006"
    Advertised duration.........................290.............. .............290
    Duration @.050............................... 266........................... 265
    Lobe center.......................................108.. .........................108

    Intake opens 25deg. BTDC..................Exhaust opens 60.5 deg. BBDC
    Intake closes 61 ABDC.........................Exhaust closes 24.5 ATDC




    Web like most cam grinders in the US measure these specs at zero lash @.050 inches valve lift. This is a standard to help compare different cam types and by mfg.
    Yamaha and most all Japanese cams are measured. @.040 (1mm) This includes Hot Cams and Megacycle cams.

    Iím not going to get into cam degreeing but it is a must. There are tons of how to books , info on the net , & videos. Most of the cams on the market for a Raptor 700 are not CNC ground. So human error is always a factor. A few degrees off one way or another can affect performance and the power one is looking for.

    Lets start with the most important part of any cam grind. The 4 main timing events. This would be the opening and closing events in a cam in relationship to the crank/piston. All information is based on Raptor 700 Natural Aspirated builds.

    1. Intake opening . This range can be from 11 to 30 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) This affects duration , intake centerline , lobe separation , and overlap. The direct relationship to this number plays into the intake closing and how much duration your looking for, overlap , intake center line ,& lobe separation. Try and have the intake closing point and exhaust opening point determined along with the above before making this decision.

    2. Intake closing. This can range from 42 to 69 degrees ABDC (After Bottom Dead Center) This affects duration , intake centerline , lobe separation. But also has a direct impact on static compression ratio.
    Example of impact on cr. A stock stroke 102mm x stock stroke 84mm build with a 11 to 1 static cr piston is really 10.06 - 1 to 8.49 - 1 cr at sea level and has a corrected compression stroke of 76.2 mm to 62.99mm. All based on intake closing. So in turn the later you close the intake (higher the number) causes low in power loss and top end power gain.

    3. Exhaust opening. This can range from 41 to 65 degrees BBDC (Before Bottom Dead Center) This affects duration , exhaust centerline , lobe separation. By opening the exhaust sooner (lower number) with a high duration cam 255 degs + will net you more high end power. This with a will tuned exhaust and intake will produce great top end gain, The trade off is loss in low end efficiency. You can achieve a happy medium by keeping the opening a little delayed.

    4. Exhaust closing. This can range from 10 to 28 degrees ATDC ( After Top Dead Center) This affects duration , exhaust centerline , lobe separation , and overlap. The direct relationship to this number plays into the exhaust opening and how much duration your looking for, overlap , exhaust center line ,& lobe separation. Try and have the exhaust opening and intake closing point determined along with the above before making this decision.

    Lift is the second most important factor in choosing a camshaft. Too much lift is hard to accomplish. Were really limited by , Piston to valve clearance , valve train , valve springs. For most of us .500 max lift is where itís at. There are racers pushing the envelope with much higher lifts but it requires getting into valve train geometry. Something most are not ready for.

    Overlap. Range is 20 to 60 degrees. This is a critical area in determining your useable power band. This is the time that the intake is opening and the exhaust is closing. The valves are partially open at the same time. This reading is in crankshaft degrees. Increasing can be done with more duration and or moving the lobe separation angle. What you get is a scavenging affect as the exhaust valve is on the closing side of the exhaust stroke. The intake valve is opening. The exiting exhaust pressure creates a vacuum in the intake as the intake valve is opening. Thus giving you a better intake charge.
    This is what Ed Iskenderian call the 5th cycle in a cam naming a cam in the late 50ís the Isky 5 cycle cam. It was pretty cutting edge at the time.

    The higher the number the higher the power band. It is critical to have a intake and especially the exhaust system that properly scavenges. Or you will loose more power then you gain. Over lap is easy to calculate just take the intake opening point and the exhaust closing point and add them up. In the case of the Web4 intake 25 + exhaust 24.5 = 49.5 degrees overlap in the Web 4.


    Advertised duration this is seat to seat duration at zero lash. Range is 250 to 300 degrees.

    Duration @.050 range is 225-275 degrees . In short is what became the industry standard in measuring camshaft duration. It was originated back in the late 50ís to compare different cam grinders cams and different types of cams. To keep the standard of measuring the same..050" of lift after it opens and .050" before it closes. Itís still a good idea to know what seat to seat duration is.
    Japan , Hot cams , & Megacycle use .040 (1mm) the difference is 2-4 degrees on average. Open -v- closed points.

    Lobe centers intake and exhaust. Range is 100 to 112 degrees. The angle of the centerline of the intake and exhaust lobes. This is checked in camshaft degrees. The Web4 , Megacycle X4 , and a few others are 108 degrees. Increasing the intake from the 108 and decreasing the exhaust would retard cam timing. Thus moving the power band up. Just the opposite would be advancing cam timing and moving the power band down.
    Doing this affects the numbers in the 4 main timing events. We will discuss how to use this to your advantage later.

    Lobe separation angle. This can range from 104 to 110 on average for the raptor. Itís the degree of angle between the intake center line and the exhaust center line. Increasing it decreases overlap. Decreasing increases overlap. General rule of thumb is it will widen and flatten the power band by increasing and narrow the power band by decreasing. Great tool to use along with intake and exhaust centerlines angles. The Web 4 , X4 , and a few others are 108.

    Now when looking at cam follow these basic steps. Your headÖ.Is it ported , what size valves , and valve springs. ( Iím not going to get into custom valve angles , combustion chambers and such. Best to leave that to the racers)
    Itís best to start with the intake side of the cam and then work the exhaust in to fit your needs.
    The exhaust should flow between 65-80% of the intake. . As soon as you do a 3 mod with duals you are on the high side to possibly exceeding it.

    In the next few weeks we will cover Head porting , Motor size , intake . Exhaust ,Compression ratioís , altitude, ect. And how they all affect cam specs.

  2. #2
    Bolt-on Beginner jw700's Avatar
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    WOW ! That's some good info.
    2006 700 Raptor
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  3. #3
    Sponsors HenryPortingService's Avatar
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    Great thread! Maybe you would also like to cover how a larger lobe separation is more efficient on boosted and nitrous injected engines as well !! :)

  4. #4
    Bolt-on Beginner eatroostsbanshees's Avatar
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    I love it when guys on here will give out technical tips that some of us have noo clue about, we just bolt it together and ride it. This kind of stuff is very very much appreciated, not necessarily giving out the secrets but instead giving us direction towards what we want to achieve. Not to mention aiding us in understanding the logistics on how everything works. More of this kind of guidance is more than welcomed. Keep it comin!!!!
    2008 gytr 700r
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  5. #5
    Modding the Motor EHSRACING's Avatar
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    good info

    just adding
    raptor cams being single cams are a different in setup vs dual overhead cams like in a bunch of 450 those you can change a bunch of what is desribed above but on a single cam your stuck with what you had ground.

    if you move intake lobe exhast lobe follows so your cant change LS or if you move one centerline the other follows.

    duration is also set on grind profile (above is said Intake opening effects duration which it does if you keep consistent the closing time but if your degreeing the cam you move IN opening ex opening changes also) not saying it was wrong above, just don think you can change duration on a cam by degreeing it. you may see a slight change from rocker arm ratio but its pretty much what it is

    also there is much more that happens over .050" but thats advanced thinking this is great info for people to get there head around you basically have lifts and duration at .050, .100, .150 etc and in between the lobe profile changes things a good bit

    same with base circle and ramp rate how quick the valve gets to full lift how long it dwells at full lift and closes. there is a lot going on and a lot of things you can change
    EHS Racing
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    I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubble gum.

  6. #6
    Master Modder D7Racing's Avatar
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    Thanks guys It means allot coming from one's peers...

    This thread was really just to help out the average NA guy / gear head. I'd like to get into boosted & NOS cams at some point.

    You can change lobe centers on a single cam and yes they will follow. If you want custom lobe centers or move lobe separation that will require a new cam grind.

    Getting into anything above .050 in profile would be great. The down fall is were limited by profiles available through Web. Unless someone wants a custom done then it's $1200.00 a lobe. Not a risk most of us want to take. Really wish there were more cams available. A good example of that is the Web4 and megacycle X4 there close grinds but perform different.


    Example of how cam cards would look moving a Web4 cam 4 degree's advanced and retarded


    As you can see the lift , duration , Lobe separation (108), & overlap (49.5) all stay the same. What changes is what you see in Blue advanced and Red retarded


    Web 4 4 degree's advanced. This would move the power band down.


    Valve lift ..........................................Intake.. ..................Exhaust
    .................................................. ........ .500".........................460"
    Valve lash..........................................005" ...........................006"
    Advertised duration.........................290.............. .............290
    Duration @.050............................... 266........................... 265
    Lobe center.......................................104.. .........................112

    Intake opens 29deg. BTDC..................Exhaust opens 64.5 deg. BBDC
    Intake closes 57 ABDC.........................Exhaust closes 20.5 ATDC

    And Retarding the same cam 4 degree's witch will move the power band up

    Valve lift ..........................................Intake.. ..................Exhaust
    .................................................. ........ .500".........................460"
    Valve lash..........................................005" ...........................006"
    Advertised duration.........................290.............. .............290
    Duration @.050............................... 266........................... 265
    Lobe center.......................................112.. .........................104

    Intake opens 21deg. BTDC..................Exhaust opens56.5 deg. BBDC
    Intake closes 65 ABDC.........................Exhaust closes 28.5 ATDC

    Web 4 unchanged
    Valve lift ..........................................Intake.. ..................Exhaust
    .................................................. ........ .500".........................460"
    Valve lash..........................................005" ...........................006"
    Advertised duration.........................290.............. .............290
    Duration @.050............................... 266........................... 265
    Lobe center.......................................108.. .........................108

    Intake opens 25deg. BTDC..................Exhaust opens 60.5 deg. BBDC
    Intake closes 61 ABDC.........................Exhaust closes 24.5 ATDC

  7. #7
    Master Modder D7Racing's Avatar
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    Now that we all have a little better basic's on cam's let contune to spread the love...

    HDD5050 CAM SPECS


    LIFT.................................. Intake .500.................... Exhaust .460
    .
    Duration..............................284......... ....................... 290
    .
    Duration @.050....................260 degs.....................265 degs
    .
    ...................................... Intake opens................... Exhaust opens
    ..................................... 22 degs btdc................... 60.5 degs bbdc
    .................................... Intake closes.................. Exhaust closes
    ...................................... 58 degs abdc.................. 24.5 degs atdc
    .
    ................. Intake center line 108...................Exhaust center line 108
    .

    ..............................108 lobe separation ,........... 46.5 degs overlap


    As you can see it's a Web4 cam with 6 degs removed off the intake....Not sure why someone would claim an existing design as there own?

    From what we have learned about the Raptors head and the direction one would go is to remove the same 6degs off the exhaust on leave the intake alone. Maybe no one has done that yet to copy.

    We all know that dyno's don't lie...Ever thought about the guy running it......Don't be fooled by the man behind the curtain..The less you know the more you can be fooled.
    Last edited by D7Racing; 04-04-2013 at 01:52 AM.

  8. #8
    Modding the Motor WhiteLightning's Avatar
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    Woooooooowwwwwwww.......................

  9. #9
    Bolt-on Beginner ernieds650's Avatar
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    again
    stock bore ds 650/CUERVO RACING SO CAL

  10. #10
    Bolt-on Beginner offroadpartshub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D7Racing View Post
    Now that we all have a little better basic's on cam's let contune to spread the love...

    HDD5050 CAM SPECS


    LIFT.................................. Intake .500.................... Exhaust .460
    .
    Duration..............................284......... ....................... 290
    .
    Duration @.050....................260 degs.....................265 degs
    .
    ...................................... Intake opens................... Exhaust opens
    ..................................... 22 degs btdc................... 60.5 degs bbdc
    .................................... Intake closes.................. Exhaust closes
    ...................................... 58 degs abdc.................. 24.5 degs atdc
    .
    ................. Intake center line 108...................Exhaust center line 108
    .

    ..............................108 lobe separation ,........... 46.5 degs overlap


    As you can see it's a Web4 cam with 6 degs removed off the intake....Not sure why someone would claim an existing design as there own?

    From what we have learned about the Raptors head and the direction one would go is to remove the same 6degs off the exhaust on leave the intake alone. Maybe no one has done that yet to copy.

    We all know that dyno's don't lie...Ever thought about the guy running it......Don't be fooled by the man behind the curtain..The less you know the more you can be fooled.

    Wow what a stupid comment! Anyone that has the faintest idea of how ordering/designing camshafts goes can see through that comment like a freshly cleaned window! Every cam out there at some point is just a variation of what someone else has tried. Does someone else have a part number for a web4 with 6 degree's removed from the intake? No? Well there ya go..... seems like his part to me then.

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