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Discussion Starter #1
The title explains it all here.....I'm kinda stuck on what I want to do? Cam, Ignition, P&P, throttle body? Help me out there fellas:hail:
 

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You are basically were I am. I am not ready to break the seal on the motor yet so I am going to do a cam and bored TB next. Then when I get bored with that I will get a CNC port job. By then the builders will have the CNC porting down.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You are basically were I am. I am not ready to break the seal on the motor yet so I am going to do a cam and bored TB next. Then when I get bored with that I will get a CNC port job. By then the builders will have the CNC porting down.
Yep, you read my mind on the "breaking the seal" statement. I'm kinda leaning toward a cam though.....I just wanted to see everyone else's suggestions.....I'm still open for recommendations....:thumb:
 

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Truth be known before I do all that I would just put a turbo on it. There is only one reason you go into the motor and thats to make more power (unless something is broken, so I guess theres 2 reasons.) And you can go in and spend all kinds of money and have the motor be all "high strung" and tetering on the edge implosion. Or just get a turbo and be done, will be around the same money but I bet the bike will be more rideable. Of course mine is stock so you can take that with a grain of salt.
 

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turbo and rideability should not be used in the same sentence.......
11:1 piston and cam should go hand in hand..... this mod is done while retaining near stock reliability if installed correctly, i would stay away from the tb unless u have a dyno tuner near by, but is well worth the money on a ported bike....... i
 

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Discussion Starter #6
turbo and rideability should not be used in the same sentence.......
11:1 piston and cam should go hand in hand..... this mod is done while retaining near stock reliability if installed correctly, i would stay away from the tb unless u have a dyno tuner near by, but is well worth the money on a ported bike....... i
O.K......good info to know about the TB and dyno...
 

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I think it depends on what kind of riding and what terrain you are riding on.

The Bored TB is only going to be good at the High RPM's area. SO unless you are doing some racing that is required for 4th gear to pull longer then save your money.

Most people will have to agree that the best all around mods you can do to see the best results without going extreme is to do Piston, Cam , Port.

I got all of my stuff done really cheap. Piston , Cam , gaskets cost 330.00 shipped and I had a local porter port my head for 140.00. So thats about 500.00 for a ton of added RWHP.

Just buy the 2 parts cam/piston and install them yourself. Its really simple and If you dont have the experience then just follow the manual and it is straight forward.

Hope my Input helps you a bit.

I could tell a huge difference when I added the engine mods.

If you dont want to do the work your self, Put the piston in and send the head to Bo (velociRaptor) and he will do the porting and the cam work for ya.

Good porter , Really fair prices.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I think it depends on what kind of riding and what terrain you are riding on.

The Bored TB is only going to be good at the High RPM's area. SO unless you are doing some racing that is required for 4th gear to pull longer then save your money.

Most people will have to agree that the best all around mods you can do to see the best results without going extreme is to do Piston, Cam , Port.

I got all of my stuff done really cheap. Piston , Cam , gaskets cost 330.00 shipped and I had a local porter port my head for 140.00. So thats about 500.00 for a ton of added RWHP.

Just buy the 2 parts cam/piston and install them yourself. Its really simple and If you dont have the experience then just follow the manual and it is straight forward.

Hope my Input helps you a bit.

I could tell a huge difference when I added the engine mods.

If you dont want to do the work your self, Put the piston in and send the head to Bo (velociRaptor) and he will do the porting and the cam work for ya.

Good porter , Really fair prices.

Your input helped me a ton....I guess I'll hold off on the TB.....Lots of trails/mountains where I ride at....


I figure I can do the cam no problem.....any downside to just adding a cam right now with no 11:1 piston? I mean I know there will be obvious downside as far as "performance" goes.....What I mean by "downside" is this: Will the engine's life be negatively affected by doing a cam only?
 

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Your input helped me a ton....I guess I'll hold off on the TB.....Lots of trails/mountains where I ride at....


I figure I can do the cam no problem.....any downside to just adding a cam right now with no 11:1 piston? I mean I know there will be obvious downside as far as "performance" goes.....What I mean by "downside" is this: Will the engine's life be negatively affected by doing a cam only?
I think you have found your first generalization. I'm not sure where the info came from on the TB, but I have about 150-160 customers and a dozen or so dealers that do not agree with the high end power only statements. They make almost the same gain over the entire RPM range. I had my TB's tested by Kenz and Rocket Factory before I ever sold the first one. Everyone was surprised to find that it made more power over virtually the entire power range. Since I started, they have been tested by Holeshot designs, KBR, Hanssen Performance, Racers Edge....... and the list goes on and on. With the same results.

That being said, after the big 3, I believe the cam to be the biggest bang for the buck. The Hotcam stageII works fine with or without compression increases, and is quite easy on the valvetrain:thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Kenny, I don't doubt your work...As a matter of fact your throttle body WILL be a future mod for me....I see that you have an outstanding support base and that speaks volumes....I am however as you put it looking for the best "bang for the buck" at the moment.

Thanks for your expertise Kenny....:thumb:
 

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Im sorry guys I ignorantly assumed you were a dune rider. THat would be the furthest thing from my mind also if I rode trails. :duh:
 

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Kenny, I don't doubt your work...As a matter of fact your throttle body WILL be a future mod for me....I see that you have an outstanding support base and that speaks volumes....I am however as you put it looking for the best "bang for the buck" at the moment.

Thanks for your expertise Kenny....:thumb:
I always recommend cam and compression after the big three. Then ignition, TB and Crankcase evac in whatever order after that:thumb:
 

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sorry to change the subject for 1 sec. but how the hell does BigBird have 100,000+ posts? lol i was like wtf?!?!?!

but back to the subject, i think if your still not 100% set on something before you do it then dont do it, cam and TB are good gateway mods then so on and so on....just my .02
 

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I think you have found your first generalization. I'm not sure where the info came from on the TB, but I have about 150-160 customers and a dozen or so dealers that do not agree with the high end power only statements. They make almost the same gain over the entire RPM range. I had my TB's tested by Kenz and Rocket Factory before I ever sold the first one. Everyone was surprised to find that it made more power over virtually the entire power range. Since I started, they have been tested by Holeshot designs, KBR, Hanssen Performance, Racers Edge....... and the list goes on and on. With the same results.

That being said, after the big 3, I believe the cam to be the biggest bang for the buck. The Hotcam stageII works fine with or without compression increases, and is quite easy on the valvetrain:thumb:


KENNY, First of all, I think you do great work and I hear great things about your TB's. In fact I have spoken in PM's with you on RF.com about getting 1 myself. Unfortunatly, I didnt save 2 seperate PM's where you told me yourself that I wouldnt see hardly any gain on the low end and all you could tell was that it pulled longer on the top side. Trust me I wish I would have saved those to help prove my so called Opinion.

If you read bluetraxx.com it says this *pasted from there site.
What is produced by all this? Horsepower gains up top without losing torque and power down low. An added bonus is that with the +2mm throttle body, the horsepower and torque is held longer in a usable range. When we initially threw our 700R on the dynometer, it had a serious power loss down low compared to our “before” dyno run. We started adding fuel and it got even worse, so we went the other way and leaned out the fuel by 4%, and found that to do the trick. Now it was running very comparable to our "before" results down low (5500-4500 RPM, and below). Up top (5500+ RPM) we found it quite lean. We upped the PCII between 4-8% at various points along the RPM range until enough fuel was added. Click HERE for our dyno plot.
Dyno Graph shows hardly no gain up to the 5400 mark on RPM's and it shows only 2Hp gain at 7200 ish RPM's.

It does show that it makes a gain up top and holds the power longer.

Now dont get me wrong here. I was just telling him that if he isnt making straight pulls where he is in 4th gear pinned out then He should look for other mods that would benefit his style of riding better.

I have spoke with many other forum members who have your +2 TB and for the most part honestly, they say , & you said to me in a PM. That A person probably wouldnt notice the gain by the butt dyno. I have seen some threads that say they see a difference and some say then cant tell much difference.

Here is 1 dyno where there was an increased Peak HP but you can clearly see it wasnt over the entire MAP


Here is another Dyno with a before and after of the +2 TB.
Still no gain in the entire map





Quote from: Rocket Factory on September 06, 2007, 10:07:31 pm
The X4 I would not recommend for any small or non drag applications. It moves the power to the right too much.



Just Dyno'd Kenny's +2 Throttle body on a stock bore stock stroke 11:1 stage 3 web head porting and got over 2 hp better across most the curve.

Good job Kenny. Start making them faster your in for it now:).

Jason

Thanks so much Jason!
Kenny

Again, Im not looking for an argument however I believe that My INFO that you discredited above is published on Raptorforum.com and on bluetraxx article that they wrote up about it being the best mod for the TOP RPM's

Hope this helps out Diggs with his decision.

Hell Diggs take your stimulus money and buy all the parts........
a +2 TB also.....
It is worth the money if you are looking for a couple ponies on the higher side of the RPM curve.

And Kenny, I still Plan On getting my TB done by your excellent work as soon as I can get back into modding my beast.
 

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Just edited and added another dyno that was posted.
I am not trying to discredit Kenny and I think he does great work.

I just dont think that the +2 is the best mod for someone who mainly rides trails. Especially when he doesnt even have a cam or Piston yet.
 

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Just edited and added another dyno that was posted.
I am not trying to discredit Kenny and I think he does great work.

I just dont think that the +2 is the best mod for someone who mainly rides trails. Especially when he doesnt even have a cam or Piston yet.
Like I said, I always recommend a cam and piston change first. I do wish you would take down the Alba chart though....It does not perform like mine. They behave very differently. If you look at the first chart, you will see that the power was even @ 2600RPM and by 3000 my TB was better all the way to the top. The Bluetraxx article is probably the lowest gain I have seen. I found this very useful for aggressive woods riding. Less shifting and less sensitivity to being in the wrong gear.

I tell everyone not to expect it to feel much different. The same goes for ignition. Again, the biggest bang for your buck is the cam and then the piston. The cool thing is that almost everything you do to the Raptor makes more power. I think we are kinda saying the same thing..........Definitely not the first mod, but a necessity to maximize performance with other mods.:thumb:
 

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My thoughts about mods are, if you are riding trails, you need better suspension and not more power. Most trails we ride in Pa are tight and you don't really get above 3rd gear. If you can't control your quad, then why more power? JMO
 

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My thoughts about mods are, if you are riding trails, you need better suspension and not more power. Most trails we ride in Pa are tight and you don't really get above 3rd gear. If you can't control your quad, then why more power? JMO
i am with you 100% my bike is just no good and not fun to ride on the trails my wifes bike is a blast and is fun to ride but for the sand i will not get on it my bike with the h.p. is at home in the sand not the trails :thumb:
 
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